JamesSuckling Interviews features innovative and influential winery owners, winemakers and industry notables representing the new generation that is shaping tastes, trends and techniques in the greater wine world.
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With a rich background in consulting spanning more than 140 wine estates in Bordeaux and beyond, Stephane Derenoncourt approached the T-Oinos winemaking project on the Greek island of Tinos with a sense of excitement backed by years of expertise – both requisite for the hostile, lunar environment that awaited him. The winery was founded in 2002 by Greek businessman Alexandre Avatangelos and Gerard Margeon, the former executive head sommelier for the Alain Ducasse restaurant empire. Both men were passionate about re-creating a vineyard from the times of ancient Greece and were confident that the modern assyrtiko and mavrotragano grapes grown on Tinos (among other local varieties) could be used to make some of Greece’s finest and most unique wines. Along with a team including winemaker Thanos Georgilas, Derenoncourt has applied his highly sensitive winemaking approach to the singular aspects of T-Oinos offerings, capturing the complex, vibrant and energetic qualities of Tinos’ terroir. Their Clos Stegasta Rare wines, both mavrotragano and assyrtiko, are JamesSuckling.com’s highest-rated wines from Greece and are revered within the country. They sell for up to $150 and are available through La Place de Bordeaux.
JamesSuckling.com’s Susan Kostrzewa recently talked to Derenoncourt (who has stepped back from his broader consulting business to focus on T-Oinos and other projects) about the challenges – and benefits – of making wine on Tinos, why Greece should preserve its ancient indigenous varieties, the importance of vine tribulation and why journalists (and sommeliers) need to sit up and take better notice of wines from T-Oinos, Tinos and throughout Greece. The interview has been edited for length and clarity.
What attracted you to this project and to making wine on the island of Tinos?
My first impression was the beauty of the place, of course, because it’s something very special, very strange, and it’s full of energy. I’ve been a consultant for more than 25 years but it’s not every day you can come into contact with a place like that. It was very interesting for me to understand how to manage the vineyard here with the wind, the dryness, etc. And I was impressed by T-Oinos’ owner, Alexander Avatangelos, because he’s like a philosopher. His dream was to put the landscape in a bottle. I found it very poetic, and all my life I’ve tried to make vins du terroir. For me, the identity of the wine is completely intertwined with the soil.
The landscape of Tinos has been described as almost lunar, with those intense winds and dryness you referenced posing a constant challenge both to the vines and winemakers. Can you talk a little more about the terroir and the soil and what the resulting style is?
People in ancient Greece said the gods were fighting with rocks and created this strange landscape. On Tinos, the soils range from sea level to 350 meters in altitude. You find some beautiful soils with a lot of schist. It’s a granitic soil and a little bit like sand, coming from the erosion of the rocks. As soon as you have granitic soil, you have a kind of purity. You find that in wine from Spain and in the Loire Valley, like muscadet. It creates a brilliant wine with a lot of lift, and this is a specific quality I’ve considered since the beginning.
Compared to Santorini, for example, where you have a volcanic black soil, Tinos is very sunny and warm and the style of a wine like assyrtiko is totally different. It’s bigger and rounder. Yet with the granitic side you have a lot of freshness. In terms of quality you can find some very good wine in both places, but to me the potential of this terroir is far better. You can make wine with a full intensity and a lot of freshness, with a kind of saltiness in the finish – subtle but beautiful bitterness and aromas like lemon rather than exotic fruit.
What’s your biggest challenge at T-Oinos as far as climate change is concerned? Any silver linings?
The big challenge is the lack of water. We have to work much more closely in observing what’s happening with the vines and to be aware that we’ll produce less because of the lack of it. But on the positive side, the grapes are more interesting and more complex with this new situation. I feel that to make a complex wine, the vine must suffer a little. Our job is to walk the line between not enough life and too much – too vigorous a vineyard. When a vineyard faces difficulty, the flavor and grapes reflect that soil and suffering. It’s like if you have children and you make their life very easy with no frustration, they’re less likely to grow into a beautiful adult.
In your varied history of consulting worldwide, are there any projects or regions that prepared you for your work on Tinos?
In 2008, I was in charge of a vineyard in Turkey in another difficult area, Cappadocia. There, it’s also sand but with limestone. It was also very difficult to yield a good soil without compaction. It was the first experiment we made with a cover crop and it was a success. T-Oinos is the most beautiful terroir I’ve ever seen during my life as a consultant, but also maybe the most difficult.
As a consultant, I’ve worked everywhere, sometimes in very sunny places where I had to find solutions, mainly in terms of reducing irrigation because my dream is to drive the vineyard without irrigation. For the first time this year at T-Oinos, we didn’t irrigate anything. There wasn’t any water and it’s very uncomfortable to take water from the city for the vineyard when people need it. We have to find solutions but not with money – with ecology.
Why is mavrotragano of specific importance to you and T-Oinos?
Mavrotragano was not previously used to make great wines in Greece; in Santorini, they used it to make vin santo. I was a little bit afraid of mavro because I didn’t know the variety well. But the first time I came to organize the harvest and taste the grapes, I was very surprised by its similarity to syrah, for example. It’s a tannic wine. You find a hint of flowers like violets, and there’s a spicy side to it. It’s fantastic because it’s the kind of variety whose flavor really reflects the soil, the schist. You have something very complex, very elegant in the tannins – like a powder – and of course minerality. It’s naturally powerful but always fresh because you have a saltiness in the finish. It’s easy to drink but at the same time very complex. For me, it was a beautiful discovery.
Why do you think it’s important that Greece protects its indigenous varietal heritage?
I think wine is a reflection of the society. In the last 50 years, it was a kind of a homogenization – very easy for wine lovers to drink the same wine and be confident that they’d recognize cabernet sauvignon whether it was from Bordeaux or California or anywhere in the world. It was the beginning of appreciation and it was easier to go for international varieties like merlot, syrah, cabernet. Now the world is different because we love everything local. We love everything new and we need surprises.
We need to dream because the world is difficult. And so there is an opportunity to build the future with the past, and all these varieties come from the past. They have a long history. Our job as winemakers is to offer a new definition of the variety closer to what the consumer expects. Maybe 20 years ago it was interesting to say, “Wow, have you tasted a cabernet from Greece?” Today? Nobody cares. Now they’re replanting the old varieties and thinking more about identity, culture, history. It’s a good thing.
Do you feel there’s any disadvantage to global perceptions about Greek wines in general?
Quality modern winemaking is something that’s a bit new in Greece, because previously there was an old style and tradition of winemaking, and though in antiquity they were very famous, that fame disappeared. For a long time, they made a rustic style of wine [like retsina, where resin was added to the wine]. But for the past 20 years, probably first because of Santorini, Greece has been producing some really high-quality wine. In the future, we’ll hear more about them.
So you think Greek wine will have its moment globally?
Even though Greek wine has been getting better and better in the last 20 years, critics and journalists always say the same thing about Bordeaux, the Rhone, California. I know James [Suckling] loves these wines but he’s one of the only serious people in the world in terms of critique to do it. We’ve spent a lot of time organizing masterclasses because I can send samples to different critics, but they have no idea what the wine is from this part of the world. I decided to meet with a lot of sommeliers because we have two kinds of storytellers – journalists/critics and sommeliers, and the sommeliers are very important because they have direct contact with the consumer.
I’m optimistic, though, because this country is so rich in terms of varieties. There are more than 300 different ones. If we work harder on these varieties, introducing this new generation of winemakers to thinking more about the style and higher quality, there’s so much potential in Greece.
READ MORE GREECE ANNUAL REPORT: A VINOUS EVOLUTION TO CLASSIC QUALITY
Can you talk about new developments and expansion at T-Oinos?
The big investment for the moment is to build a new cellar, because we work in good conditions but not excellent. We want very precise production, very organic. It will take three years to build as it’s a very specific design with specific people to manage it. Also, everything is difficult as soon as you are on an island, because everything comes from the continent. If you need people with good technical skills, you have to source from other areas. So it takes a lot of time, but it will be a beautiful project. We’ve also decided to plant two more hectares of vineyards because in Tinos, it takes 15 vines to make a bottle. That’s why the wine is a little bit expensive – because it’s very difficult to produce and demanding, with a lot of precision. We have to be in the vineyard all of the time because of the wind, and those 10 people in the vineyard want to be paid every month.
How can we attract more consumers not only to Aegean wines, but to wine in general? In the face of declining wine consumption, what do you think we could do better?
It’s important to engage the critics and journalists because it’s your job to help. Also, if we can make more complex and unique wines that stand out globally, this will be more successful. We know there are great wines in Greece. We have to better communicate that to the consumer. Also, the world is changing a lot and a lot of people now travel. There’s new passion for Greek gastronomy and they finally come, taste, love and buy the wine. So it’s a long-term project.
– Susan Kostrzewa
